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School and system failed both students!

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V.O.R. View Drop Down
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  Quote V.O.R. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2008 at 11:36pm
Alan, I wish you would stay and keep some sanity in this and other threads. It seems as though you are a true "Voice of Reason" and would hope that you continue to be so.
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  Quote Alan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2008 at 2:04pm
this is my last post.
 
First of all, I came here because I read in my local paper about this tragedy.
 
I felt, based on the info that I was able to read, that the school and the admin's had to  bear "SOME' of the responsibilty for this happening at SCHOOL.
 
I have not once, defended the shooter, or judged Gay people. I love some gay people, and accept them completely !
 
The problem here, is that my opinion, started this rant from TONES that this converation about this MURDER  should be limited to discussing the INTOLERANCE that he wants to preach...
 
Hear me out, Intolerance will always exist....poverty will....uninsured people, racism will, regardless of which politician you want to support and believe....
 
some things, good or bad, like them or not,  will be apart of this society, this country and this world....how we "control" these issues is also relevant, and a school understand this.
 
Tones, trying to force feed your agenda or orientation on others is going to change the world.
 
Larry was a victim, but the School and admin's let both of these young people down.
 
Your elitist views, and bringing cultures, demographics, etc into what I am saying is getting off the subject entirely.
 
Some of you cannot understand reality, or refuse to..... and that is why you cannot understand my points of view.
My intelligience is not what is missing here. A lack of seeing the world with 20/20 vision is the problem with some of you, and too many these days.
 
I will not come back and try to explain my feelings with those that refuse to see or listen to reason.
 
In closing, I do hope that the School learned somthing from this tragic day.
 
 
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  Quote Woodstock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2008 at 3:45pm
Right on, tones. Why is he even coming on here and being a troll? Obvious he doesn't like gay people.
 Having grown up in the South when racial integration of schools was the issue that aroused strong emotions I see a parallell.
 People were saying it was the black kids fault if they went to a previously all-white school and were attacked or harassed. (Read up on the experience of the black students who integrated Little Rock High School in 1957 and you will recognize a  comparison with what LGBT kids must go through today.) The President had to send in the Army to protect those students exercising their rights.
 People who are different. People who violate social norms like gender roles or racial codes. There are those who hate them. It is up to the rest of us to stand up and speak out.
 Because if we don't-it may be us they come for some day.
 Lynching of black people, rape of women,murder and assaults on gay people-they are all one and the same.


Edited by Woodstock - Apr 27 2008 at 3:46pm
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tones91 View Drop Down
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  Quote tones91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2008 at 8:47pm
and if you had any 'intelligence', you would be able to spell correctly and not like a 3 year old.
And a good Sabbath to you tooTongue
Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.
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  Quote tones91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2008 at 8:44pm
What is the point of your being on this forum? Because i am really starting to wonder that...you sound to me like another hate-mongering person who believe that us 'homos' are invading on you 'straight folk.' You should take your 'shallowness' to another forum and get a life...and try and have some respect for larry while you are at it too.
Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.
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  Quote Alan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2008 at 7:46pm

LOL....and your nickname is Logik

I would prefer "gobbly gook"....or better yet, alot of Bullsh*t from a really whacked out individual.

Comparing Body types to "acting/dressing out" in school shows your lack of intelligiece,  and shallowness.
 
Comparing my opinion to Hitler also shows you to be very extreme in your opinions and with those that have ones that differ from yours.
 
If I had to place a bet, I would wager that you too are gay and are trying to force your prejudices on us Straight folk.
Regardless, we disagree.
Have a great weekend!

 

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  Quote tones91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 22 2008 at 10:33am

Thank you logik!

I rest my caseWink

Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.
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logik View Drop Down
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  Quote logik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 22 2008 at 5:28am
Originally posted by Alan

You are correct, but if our schools, which use to demand discipline are going to enforce dress codes, then the "tolerance" that you speak of should not extend to boys wearing high heels, and making themselves "stand out" in such a way.....thus  become distractions to themselves and others. If you do not understand that, then you are coming from the Liberal Left that I refer to.
To constantly make excuses and then to excuse those supposedly in charge is foolish in my opinion. This was tragic, but adults should not allow youth to use school as a place to express sexuality!
 
Allowing this type of behavior "contributed" to this sad day. I said Contributed!
 


Firstly, your argument is flawed because you completely overlook the ridiculousness of its application to other "distractions" aside from dress:
It is never "acceptable" or simply "to be expected" or "unavoidable" for violence and/or other forms of enforced discrimination to occur just because a student "stands out".
Students with skin problems "stand out".
Albino students "stand out".
Unusually Tall students "stand out".
Unusually short students "stand out".
Unusually plump or thin students "stand out".
Students with speech impediments "stand out".
Students with physical handicaps "stand out".
In majority white areas, black kids "stand out".
In majority non-white areas, white kids "stand out".

Should we try to enforce hight, weight, and eugenic "codes" in schools so that our children all act the same and are all the same skin color, height, intelligence, shape and ability?
Perhaps we should start making all the schools only allow blond haired, blue eyed children who are over 5 feet tall so they would not be distracted by the "inferior" children? Better yet, maybe we can make Nation-wide breeding laws so non-Aryan children are not even born here!
Oh wait--looks like Adolf Hitler beat you to your idea....

Secondly, children get distracted* by many things including pretty lady teachers, airplanes in the sky, passing notes, or even bugs on the window sills, but usually, mere distractions* don't lead to gun violence.
This shooter was convinced that he should hate the boy because he was feminine (or perceived to be).
He didn't shoot Larry for being "distracting".
He shot him for supposedly being a what he thought was something which is acceptable to hate and destroy in our culture: a homosexual, or more commonly called, a 'faggot'.
The problem was not that the shoes didn't fit the dress code so much as it was that they didn't fit the "gender role" assigned to that piece of clothing.

Thirdly, While it may be true that it was not the best idea for the boy Larry to wear high heels to school, you must remember that 15 years olds don't always have the best ideas of how to express themselves, and should not be blamed for being hurt by others because of it: hormones are changing, their psychology is just beginning to develop their adult mind, they are experimenting with the ideas of what they want to be/do when they "grow up". This is why parents and adolescents endure such stress during puberty, and also why citizens must be over 18 to vote and over 21 to drink liquor.

However, the drone-like conformist mood created by even having the uniform dress code more likely helped cause the hate crime, as opposed to the lack of enforcement of it.

The more students felt like they themselves were forced to all look the same, they began enforcing that within their own ranks.
This type of trying to "impress" the elders through being "stricter than the rulemaker" is common in all types of communities, and even in animal societies such as wolf packs.

Even one minor expressive infraction of the code then represents the  perceived 'freedom' of the student who "stands out" (both mental freedom to even think of the idea to wear it, and also perceived freedom from the rules they all have to follow) . This, in turn breeds Envy, and the collectivist-fascist attitude that the "the nail that stands up will be hammered down". 

Were it acceptable to wear whatever they wanted, (aside from showing illegal nudity) the kids would have been used to seeing all types of weird, flashy, stupid, ugly, and more importantly, diverse clothing in the classroom, so that a simple pair of shoes being odd would have at most been a joke, but not so shocking as to incite violence.

The only "liberalism" problem here is the "liberal"  over-simplification of child psychology  enforced by student uniform dress codes.




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Edited by logik - Apr 22 2008 at 5:31am
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tones91 View Drop Down
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  Quote tones91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2008 at 8:03am

Ok, enough with the "LIBERAL" already...

and, Larry is not the one who needed to calm down, because it was the "straight bullies" as you say who were the ones instigating him...so mabye the dress code was a bad one, is Larry to blame? No. And obviously if all the other kids didnt follow a dress code, then there was no reason for Lawrence to "appear" like the other kids, because they all dressed differently!

This has nothing to do with politics, it is up to whoever developed the dress code to take responsibility for it, not everyone who considers themself a democrat.

And the beauty of America is, I don't have to agree. We obviously have differing viewpoints, though we both feel that what happened is a tragedy.

Please, let's just agree to disagree instead of having a debate on this forum that is supposed to be used for the classmates.

I wont post anymore here, if it makes you happy.

Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.
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  Quote Alan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2008 at 5:43am
Ridiculous LIBERAL standards regarding Discipline is the reason that the school admin's did not and could not protect him against "str8 Bullies"...nor could they or would they make Larry calm down, and "appear", from his code of dress..... like the rest of the kids.
 
Schools are not for "acting out", they are for learning.
If mom and Dad want to allow him to wear Heels and whatever at home, that is out of the schools jurisdiction.
 
SCHOOL  and Liberal System failed both students !
 
You have to agree.
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