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School and system failed both students!

Printed From: RememberLarry.com
Category: Classmates
Forum Name: E. O. Green Jr. High Classmates
Forum Discription: A place for Larry's classmates to remember him and discuss their feelings and concerns.
URL: http://www.rememberlarry.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104
Printed Date: Jun 19 2019 at 6:01am


Topic: School and system failed both students!
Posted By: Alan
Subject: School and system failed both students!
Date Posted: Mar 30 2008 at 5:13pm
Why institute a dress code?
Typically to reduce distractions that should not be a part of schools to improve the learning process.
 
It also allows the have-nots to "blend" in with the rest of the cool students, that have the expensive clothes, etc.
 
Dress Codes can be very effective when enforced with common sense!
 
IMHO.......To allow an outwardly gay "MALE" student to wear high-heels with a "UNIFORM" was stupid and short sighted.
This child should be alive today.
The fact that the young killer also felt threatened by Larrys flamboyant attitude without intervention is also irresponsible..
He obviously could not deal with this type of attention.
 
The school and it's overt LIBERAL thinking had a tragic effect in this case.
 
In my opinion, the school and adminstrators did not protect either child! ,
and must revisit their policies to hopefully prevent another such tragedy.
 
My sincere condolences to the family and friends.



Replies:
Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 04 2008 at 7:58am
While I respect your opinion, The fact that you are blaming the school on being to 'liberal' is seemingly foolish to me. The real thing to concentrate on here is the fact that both boys had very troubled childhoods, and Lawrence was just trying to express himself the way he knew how to. We as a society need to break through the rigid Boy Code of the stereotypical male and help make building up loving families for kids our main concern...It seems as though the average family in America is becoming degraded very quickly and it is my hope that we can stop that cycle. My heart, too, goes out to both Lawrence and Brandon. Neither of them are to blame, they were just kids who didnt always know how to handle what they went through and were trying to find a way to cope in today's society.

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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: Apr 08 2008 at 1:46pm
You are correct, but if our schools, which use to demand discipline are going to enforce dress codes, then the "tolerance" that you speak of should not extend to boys wearing high heels, and making themselves "stand out" in such a way.....thus  become distractions to themselves and others. If you do not understand that, then you are coming from the Liberal Left that I refer to.
To constantly make excuses and then to excuse those supposedly in charge is foolish in my opinion. This was tragic, but adults should not allow youth to use school as a place to express sexuality!
 
Allowing this type of behavior "contributed" to this sad day. I said Contributed!
 


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 09 2008 at 7:32am

While dress codes do have good effects, there are schools all over that allow kids to wear all kinds off off color and 'distracting' things....take 'goths' with their chains or people with huge spiky hair for example!! it's distracting yes, but does it give anyone a reason to kill them? No! and that is what it all comes down too. You also forget that while sexuality doesnt define a person as a whole, it is still a big part of who they are.

If some irish kid came in wearing a kilt, which looks an awful lot like a dress, would that have 'contributed' to his death?

He was not simply expressing his sexuality, he was being himself, and if people can't understand that, than we as a society have a lot of work to do.


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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: Apr 10 2008 at 8:04pm
You have missed my point and are expressing your opinions which is fine....my point, with Dress Codes, there should be rules. They bent them backwards, and in doing so created a very avoidable environment.
When Larry chased kids, and flirted with them in a way that was his way of fighting back...he should have been disciplined like any other Bully.
 
In Schools with anything goes dress codes, they must deal with various expressions of dress, but if you institute DRESS CODES, enforce them.
 
Your other points are good, but have nothing to do with my original one.
 
Take care


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 13 2008 at 7:32pm
ok, so you got me with the dress codeSmile
 
but notice how you said 'fighting back'...he wasnt a bully, he was only trying to defend himself from the real bullies, and in the only way he knew how...it seems obvious that the teachers would have had little effect on the bullies, especially nowadays.


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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: Apr 14 2008 at 5:43am
Ridiculous LIBERAL standards regarding Discipline is the reason that the school admin's did not and could not protect him against "str8 Bullies"...nor could they or would they make Larry calm down, and "appear", from his code of dress..... like the rest of the kids.
 
Schools are not for "acting out", they are for learning.
If mom and Dad want to allow him to wear Heels and whatever at home, that is out of the schools jurisdiction.
 
SCHOOL  and Liberal System failed both students !
 
You have to agree.


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 14 2008 at 8:03am

Ok, enough with the "LIBERAL" already...

and, Larry is not the one who needed to calm down, because it was the "straight bullies" as you say who were the ones instigating him...so mabye the dress code was a bad one, is Larry to blame? No. And obviously if all the other kids didnt follow a dress code, then there was no reason for Lawrence to "appear" like the other kids, because they all dressed differently!

This has nothing to do with politics, it is up to whoever developed the dress code to take responsibility for it, not everyone who considers themself a democrat.

And the beauty of America is, I don't have to agree. We obviously have differing viewpoints, though we both feel that what happened is a tragedy.

Please, let's just agree to disagree instead of having a debate on this forum that is supposed to be used for the classmates.

I wont post anymore here, if it makes you happy.



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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: logik
Date Posted: Apr 22 2008 at 5:28am
Originally posted by Alan

You are correct, but if our schools, which use to demand discipline are going to enforce dress codes, then the "tolerance" that you speak of should not extend to boys wearing high heels, and making themselves "stand out" in such a way.....thus  become distractions to themselves and others. If you do not understand that, then you are coming from the Liberal Left that I refer to.
To constantly make excuses and then to excuse those supposedly in charge is foolish in my opinion. This was tragic, but adults should not allow youth to use school as a place to express sexuality!
 
Allowing this type of behavior "contributed" to this sad day. I said Contributed!
 


Firstly, your argument is flawed because you completely overlook the ridiculousness of its application to other "distractions" aside from dress:
It is never "acceptable" or simply "to be expected" or "unavoidable" for violence and/or other forms of enforced discrimination to occur just because a student "stands out".
Students with skin problems "stand out".
Albino students "stand out".
Unusually Tall students "stand out".
Unusually short students "stand out".
Unusually plump or thin students "stand out".
Students with speech impediments "stand out".
Students with physical handicaps "stand out".
In majority white areas, black kids "stand out".
In majority non-white areas, white kids "stand out".

Should we try to enforce hight, weight, and eugenic "codes" in schools so that our children all act the same and are all the same skin color, height, intelligence, shape and ability?
Perhaps we should start making all the schools only allow blond haired, blue eyed children who are over 5 feet tall so they would not be distracted by the "inferior" children? Better yet, maybe we can make Nation-wide breeding laws so non-Aryan children are not even born here!
Oh wait--looks like Adolf Hitler beat you to your idea....

Secondly, children get distracted* by many things including pretty lady teachers, airplanes in the sky, passing notes, or even bugs on the window sills, but usually, mere distractions* don't lead to gun violence.
This shooter was convinced that he should hate the boy because he was feminine (or perceived to be).
He didn't shoot Larry for being "distracting".
He shot him for supposedly being a what he thought was something which is acceptable to hate and destroy in our culture: a homosexual, or more commonly called, a 'faggot'.
The problem was not that the shoes didn't fit the dress code so much as it was that they didn't fit the "gender role" assigned to that piece of clothing.

Thirdly, While it may be true that it was not the best idea for the boy Larry to wear high heels to school, you must remember that 15 years olds don't always have the best ideas of how to express themselves, and should not be blamed for being hurt by others because of it: hormones are changing, their psychology is just beginning to develop their adult mind, they are experimenting with the ideas of what they want to be/do when they "grow up". This is why parents and adolescents endure such stress during puberty, and also why citizens must be over 18 to vote and over 21 to drink liquor.

However, the drone-like conformist mood created by even having the uniform dress code more likely helped cause the hate crime, as opposed to the lack of enforcement of it.

The more students felt like they themselves were forced to all look the same, they began enforcing that within their own ranks.
This type of trying to "impress" the elders through being "stricter than the rulemaker" is common in all types of communities, and even in animal societies such as wolf packs.

Even one minor expressive infraction of the code then represents the  perceived 'freedom' of the student who "stands out" (both mental freedom to even think of the idea to wear it, and also perceived freedom from the rules they all have to follow) . This, in turn breeds Envy, and the collectivist-fascist attitude that the "the nail that stands up will be hammered down". 

Were it acceptable to wear whatever they wanted, (aside from showing illegal nudity) the kids would have been used to seeing all types of weird, flashy, stupid, ugly, and more importantly, diverse clothing in the classroom, so that a simple pair of shoes being odd would have at most been a joke, but not so shocking as to incite violence.

The only "liberalism" problem here is the "liberal"  over-simplification of child psychology  enforced by student uniform dress codes.




.




Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 22 2008 at 10:33am

Thank you logik!

I rest my caseWink



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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: Apr 25 2008 at 7:46pm

LOL....and your nickname is Logik

I would prefer "gobbly gook"....or better yet, alot of Bullsh*t from a really whacked out individual.

Comparing Body types to "acting/dressing out" in school shows your lack of intelligiece,  and shallowness.
 
Comparing my opinion to Hitler also shows you to be very extreme in your opinions and with those that have ones that differ from yours.
 
If I had to place a bet, I would wager that you too are gay and are trying to force your prejudices on us Straight folk.
Regardless, we disagree.
Have a great weekend!

 



Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 26 2008 at 8:44pm
What is the point of your being on this forum? Because i am really starting to wonder that...you sound to me like another hate-mongering person who believe that us 'homos' are invading on you 'straight folk.' You should take your 'shallowness' to another forum and get a life...and try and have some respect for larry while you are at it too.

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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Apr 26 2008 at 8:47pm
and if you had any 'intelligence', you would be able to spell correctly and not like a 3 year old.
And a good Sabbath to you tooTongue


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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Woodstock
Date Posted: Apr 27 2008 at 3:45pm
Right on, tones. Why is he even coming on here and being a troll? Obvious he doesn't like gay people.
 Having grown up in the South when racial integration of schools was the issue that aroused strong emotions I see a parallell.
 People were saying it was the black kids fault if they went to a previously all-white school and were attacked or harassed. (Read up on the experience of the black students who integrated Little Rock High School in 1957 and you will recognize a  comparison with what LGBT kids must go through today.) The President had to send in the Army to protect those students exercising their rights.
 People who are different. People who violate social norms like gender roles or racial codes. There are those who hate them. It is up to the rest of us to stand up and speak out.
 Because if we don't-it may be us they come for some day.
 Lynching of black people, rape of women,murder and assaults on gay people-they are all one and the same.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: May 03 2008 at 2:04pm
this is my last post.
 
First of all, I came here because I read in my local paper about this tragedy.
 
I felt, based on the info that I was able to read, that the school and the admin's had to  bear "SOME' of the responsibilty for this happening at SCHOOL.
 
I have not once, defended the shooter, or judged Gay people. I love some gay people, and accept them completely !
 
The problem here, is that my opinion, started this rant from TONES that this converation about this MURDER  should be limited to discussing the INTOLERANCE that he wants to preach...
 
Hear me out, Intolerance will always exist....poverty will....uninsured people, racism will, regardless of which politician you want to support and believe....
 
some things, good or bad, like them or not,  will be apart of this society, this country and this world....how we "control" these issues is also relevant, and a school understand this.
 
Tones, trying to force feed your agenda or orientation on others is going to change the world.
 
Larry was a victim, but the School and admin's let both of these young people down.
 
Your elitist views, and bringing cultures, demographics, etc into what I am saying is getting off the subject entirely.
 
Some of you cannot understand reality, or refuse to..... and that is why you cannot understand my points of view.
My intelligience is not what is missing here. A lack of seeing the world with 20/20 vision is the problem with some of you, and too many these days.
 
I will not come back and try to explain my feelings with those that refuse to see or listen to reason.
 
In closing, I do hope that the School learned somthing from this tragic day.
 
 


Posted By: V.O.R.
Date Posted: May 03 2008 at 11:36pm
Alan, I wish you would stay and keep some sanity in this and other threads. It seems as though you are a true "Voice of Reason" and would hope that you continue to be so.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: May 04 2008 at 7:47am
I am sorry... I did come back because I failed to proofread my last post, and I did make a glaring error there....I typed in error
 
Tones, trying to force feed your agenda or orientation on others is going to change the world.
 
I meant to say .....
Tones, trying to force feed your agenda or orientation on others is NOT going to change the world.
 
I appreciate the kind words in the previous post. I will pop in from time to time and try to lend value when I can
 
Have a good day
 


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: May 05 2008 at 7:57am
I am in no way forcing my "homosexual agenda" on anyone. I am simply stating my opinion. You are right, though, Alan, the faculty and school could have done more to prevent this from happening. I'll stop the contention now. Have a good one, Alan.Clap

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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: Alan
Date Posted: May 05 2008 at 8:07pm
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Peace    


Posted By: divadawn
Date Posted: Jul 20 2008 at 12:38pm
ClapI totally agree with everything you said.  The school failed both boys. 


Posted By: divadawn
Date Posted: Jul 20 2008 at 12:48pm
excuse me, but i don't think what larry wore or did not wear to school caused his death.  that was caused by him trying to inflick his sexual preference on others, especially brandon.  it sounds as if larry was the overbearing bully out of control and the other students just had to endure it.  the school failed by not protecting brandon.........and larry to a degree.  he should have been disciplined for his unruly behavior.   and i do believe unruly behavior is correct if you read about his behavior at home.....holes in the wall with screwdrivers???? i feel for larry's parents because it appears they did everything right except get him the help he so desperately needed.  being gay or straight is irrelevant....being disrespectful of others is the case here and larry is the one that crossed the line and violated others rights.
 
alan is 100% correct...........go alan!


Posted By: divadawn
Date Posted: Jul 20 2008 at 12:54pm
Cry..........PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE.............you are so totally unreal.  excuses are a dime a dozen...........and i have yet to find a logical one for you.  that's what is wrong with a lot of society and kids today..........their parents make excuses for their unacceptable behavior.  i certainly hope you don't have kids...........


Posted By: tones91
Date Posted: Jul 22 2008 at 3:33pm
That is ridicoulous. Never was there any information of his putting holes in walls or anything of the sort. Your info must be false. And he never "inflicted" himself on anybody...to say that he was a bully in any way was preposterous. I hope you research better next time before you make such unruly assumptions. That is all i have to say, as i will not waste my breath on someone who has come into this site dedicated to Larry just to slander his name.

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Rejoice in the fact that Larry is in a better place then we could ever imagine, in a world where love will abound with him forever.


Posted By: ♥Baby-B♥
Date Posted: Aug 15 2008 at 9:41pm

i dissagre he was just showing his own style so you should shut theCensored up.larry was just tryin to make his own style its not his Censored fault



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Beth Thomas AKA ♥Baby-B♥
I WILL ALWAYS LUV LARRY♥


Posted By: ♥Baby-B♥
Date Posted: Aug 19 2008 at 8:42am

What I Wrote Is To Logik

And I Have To Quote Alan But Not All Of WhatHe Said
Originally posted by Alan

LOL....and your nickname is Logik

I would prefer "gobbly gook"....or better yet, alot of Bullsh*t from a really whacked out individual.

Comparing Body types to "acting/dressing out" in school shows your lack of intelligiece,  and shallowness.
 
 
 
But If Alan Is Saying This To Logik
Then What The Hell Alan, Larry Was Gay And Proud Of It So If He Is Gay It Doesn't Matter I Dissagre To This Part Of What Alan Said
 
 
Originally posted by Alan

 
If I had to place a bet, I would wager that you too are gay and are trying to force your prejudices on us Straight folk.
Regardless, we disagree.
Have a great weekend!

 



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Beth Thomas AKA ♥Baby-B♥
I WILL ALWAYS LUV LARRY♥


Posted By: ♥Baby-B♥
Date Posted: Aug 19 2008 at 8:54am

Originally posted by divadawn

excuse me, but i don't think what larry wore or did not wear to school caused his death.  that was caused by him trying to inflick his sexual preference on others, especially brandon.  it sounds as if larry was the overbearing bully out of control and the other students just had to endure it.  the school failed by not protecting brandon.........and larry to a degree.  he should have been disciplined for his unruly behavior.   and i do believe unruly behavior is correct if you read about his behavior at home.....holes in the wall with screwdrivers???? i feel for larry's parents because it appears they did everything right except get him the help he so desperately needed.  being gay or straight is irrelevant....being disrespectful of others is the case here and larry is the one that crossed the line and violated others rights.

 
alan is 100% correct...........go alan!

 
Well I Dont ThinkSo Larry Was Not Bulling Brandon And Where Ever You Heard That Bullsh*t Tell Me What Site And I'll Make Them Learn The Truth. Larry Was In Foster Care So You Shouldn't Feel For The Parents You Should Feel For The People Who Took Care Of Him And  Were Really Good Friends With Him.
 So No Alan Is Not 100%
Correct
To Me He Is 100% Wrong


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Beth Thomas AKA ♥Baby-B♥
I WILL ALWAYS LUV LARRY♥



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